Toledo Bar Association 311 N. Superior Street Toledo, OH 43604-1421 Main: 419.242.9363 Fax: 419.242.3614 [email protected] Hours: 8:30 am – 4:30 pm. The Toledo Bar Association Pro Bono Legal Services Program provides volunteer attorneys for low income individuals in a variety of legal issues in Lucas County. If you cannot afford an attorney and are low income, call 419-724-0460 or 888-534-1432 to see if you qualify for free legal help. The TBA Unlimited CLE Membership is available for purchase for $195 in addition to your regular membership dues through June 30. 2022. On July 1, 2022, the cost of the Unlimited CLE Membership jumps to $295. This …The Toledo Bar Association Foundation is the philanthropic arm of the Toledo Bar Association. The TBA Foundation was formed exclusively for charitable and educational purposes with the object of using its resources to: Aid lawyers in need. Gifts and bequests are greatly appreciated and can securely be made online here. For more information ...Attorney Sarah K. Skow was sworn in as 122nd President of the Toledo Bar Association for the 2022-2023 membership year on Tuesday, June 14, 2022. As partner of Spengler Nathanson, Sarah has a diverse trial and appellate practice, primarily in the areas of complex business litigation, professional malpractice defense, tort litigation, public ...The Toledo Bar Association Foundation (TBAF) is a 501 (c) (3) charitable organization and serves as the philanthropic arm of the Toledo Bar Association. The Foundation was formed exclusively for charitable and educational purposes with the object of using its resources to foster the integrity of the legal profession, to facilitate the ...General Information On Filing Grievances With The Toledo Bar Association. The Grievance Committee of the TBA has been authorized by the Supreme Court of Ohio to investigate grievances against lawyers who are either in Lucas County or involved in case in Lucas County. Matters which arise in other counties may be directed to the Office of ...The Supreme Court of Ohio adopted the Ohio Rules of Professional Conduct, effective February 1, 2007 and as amended April 1, 2015. These rules supersede and replace the Ohio Code of Professional Responsibility to govern the conduct of Ohio lawyers occurring on or after February 1, 2007. Consult the Rules of Professional Conduct here. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. On Wednesday, July 19, 2023, the Toledo Bar Association lodged a formal grievance against attorney Joseph W. Westmeyer, III before the Board of Professional Conduct of the Supreme Court of Ohio. The complaint cited Westmeyer’s alleged misconduct, which centered on his delayed delivery of rightful payments and purported …For the best experience, log in to access members-only content and resources. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. Quick Links. MyTBA ...On Friday, May 5, 2023, the Toledo Bar Association (TBA) hosted area students to celebrate Law Day at the TBA in downtown Toledo. Earlier this year, area students were invited to participate in an essay writing contest focused on the American Bar Association’s (ABA) 2023 Law Day theme, “The Cornerstones of Democracy: Civics, Civility, and … The Toledo Bar Association and Foundation are proud to partner with Sisters in Law (SIL), a group of female attorneys working alongside non-lawyer mentors to continue improving the lives of the moms and children at Mom's House of Toledo, Bethany House, and the YWCA of Northwest Ohio. Thank you for joining us for the 83rd Annual Joint Ceremony of the Toledo Bar Association, Lucas County Bar Association, Thurgood Marshall Law Association, Toledo Women’s Bar Association to pay tribute to the members of the Bar who have passed away during the last year. The Memorial Committee has released a pre …Toledo Women's Bar Association is a 501(c)6 non-profit organization. P.O. Box 1724, Toledo, Ohio 43603-1724. Powered by Wild Apricot Membership Software If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. Toledo Bar Association | 561 followers on LinkedIn. Founded in 1878, is a professional organization for attorneys, judges, paralegals and law students. | The Toledo Bar Association is a professional organization for attorneys, paralegals, and law students in Lucas County. The mission of the Toledo Bar Association is to provide outstanding … Mission, Overview and Diversity Statement Toledo Bar Association Mission Statement: To advance the highest standards of excellence for the legal profession, promote the rule of law, facilitate equal access to justice, and consciously foster a diverse and inclusive legal community, by providing unmatched collaborative opportunities, professional development and outstanding services to our ... Call 419-724-0460 to see if you qualify for free legal help. A trained specialist at Legal Aid will provide an initial screening and connect you with the TBA if you qualify. Thank you for visiting our site, and let us know if you have any suggestions for improvement. Cindy M. Kirby. President.Toledo Bar Association, Toledo (Ohio). Gefällt 1.436 Mal · 146 Personen sprechen darüber · 303 waren hier. The Toledo Bar Association is a professional organization …Toledo Bar Association Foundation Grant Making. Thank you for your interest in funding from the Toledo Bar Association Foundation. The TBA Foundation, created in 1955, is a 501(c)(3) charitable organization and serves as the …The Toledo Bar Association (TBA) announces the results of the poll taken of its members, September 7 through 21, for the upcoming judicial elections on Tuesday, November 8, 2022. Biographies of each judicial candidate and a link to an online poll were sent to members of the Toledo Bar Association asking them to rate the candidates as "highly …The Toledo Bar Association represents more than 1,450 legal professionals and has a number of cost effective opportunities that will put your organization front and center with our members. These sponsorships provide broad exposure through multiple Association channels throughout the year.For the best experience, log in to access members-only content and resources. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. Quick Links. MyTBA ...Toledo Women's Bar Association is a 501(c)6 non-profit organization. P.O. Box 1724, Toledo, Ohio 43603-1724Toledo Bar Association (Get Directions) 311 N. Superior Street Toledo, OH 43604 419-242-9363 419-242-9363 | http://www.toledobar.org If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. Jul 1, 2019 · TOLEDO BAR ASSOCIATION FOUNDATION The philanthropic arm of the Toledo Bar Association, the TBAF was founded for charitable and educational purposes. For information about the Foundation and the Fellows Program, contact Brad Lagusch, Executive Director, 419-242-9363 or at [email protected]. LAW-RELATED EDUCATION PROGRAMS Attorney Sarah K. Skow was sworn in as 122nd President of the Toledo Bar Association for the 2022-2023 membership year on Tuesday, June 14, 2022. As partner of Spengler Nathanson, Sarah has a diverse trial and appellate practice, primarily in the areas of complex business litigation, professional malpractice defense, tort litigation, public ... Toledo Bar Association (Get Directions) 311 N. Superior Street Toledo, OH 43604 419-242-9363 419-242-9363 | http://www.toledobar.orgCall 419-724-0460 to see if you qualify for free legal help. A trained specialist at Legal Aid will provide an initial screening and connect you with the TBA if you qualify. Thank you for visiting our site, and let us know if you have any suggestions for improvement. Cindy M. Kirby. President.If you are a local nonprofit who is facing a legal issue and your organization is unable to afford an attorney, please fill out this application for pro bono legal services and email to [email protected]. If you have questions, please contact Brandi Doniere, Director of Pro Bono, at 419-242-4763.In partnership with The Blade, the 2020 Toledo Bar Association Caty Armstrong Memorial Law Day Essay Contest question has been announced. This year’s essay theme is “Your Vote, Your Voice, Our...Toledo Women's Bar Association is a 501(c)6 non-profit organization. P.O. Box 1724, Toledo, Ohio 43603-1724. Powered by Wild Apricot Membership SoftwareSummary. In Toledo Bar Assn. v. Neller, 102 Ohio St.3d 1234, 2004-Ohio-2895, 809 N.E.2d 1152, ¶ 1, the Supreme Court of Ohio held that unsworn written statements signed under penalty of perjury could not be substituted for affidavits in Ohio. Delegate legal research to CoCounsel, your new AI legal assistant.The Supreme Court of Ohio adopted the Ohio Rules of Professional Conduct, effective February 1, 2007 and as amended April 1, 2015. These rules supersede and replace the Ohio Code of Professional Responsibility to govern the conduct of Ohio lawyers occurring on or after February 1, 2007. Consult the Rules of Professional Conduct here.The Toledo Bar Association Member Assistance Program (MAP) is a source for help for TBA members. The Toledo Bar Association understands that anyone can use a little help at some point, for difficulties from stress or marital problems to substance abuse or job burnout, which is why we offer the Member Assistance Program (MAP) through …In re Neller (1997), 80 Ohio St.3d 1439, 685 N.E.2d 779. On April 8, 2002, relator, Toledo Bar Association, filed a complaint charging respondent with violations of the Code of Professional Responsibility. 1 A panel of the Board of Commissioners on Grievances and Discipline heard the cause and, based on comprehensive stipulations and other ...Cara is active in the local community and serves as on the Toledo Bar Association Board of Directors and as the Chair of the Toledo Bar Association’s Diversity Committee. As Chair of the Diversity Committee since March 2017, Cara oversees committee activities, such as CLEs and monthly meetings, and leads the administration of the Toledo Bar … The Toledo Bar Association Pro Bono Legal Services Program provides volunteer attorneys for low income individuals in a variety of legal issues in Lucas County. If you cannot afford an attorney and are low income, call 419-724-0460 or 888-534-1432 to see if you qualify for free legal help. The Toledo Bar Association (TBA), Ohio State Bar Association, and a number of metropolitan bar associations formed Ohio Notary Services, LLC to meet the new requirements and opportunities for Ohio notaries resulting from the Notary Modernization Act of 2019. Join us for the 85th Annual Joint Ceremony of the Toledo Bar Association, Lucas County Bar Association, Thurgood Marshall Law Association and the The Toledo…Form approved by the Toledo Regional Association of REALTORS® and the Toledo Bar Association. This is a legal Agreement. It is recommended that both parties secure the services of an attorney. 1. OFFER. The undersigned purchaser(s) ("Purchaser") offers to buy from the owner(s) ("Seller") the property described An innovative divorce clinic at the Toledo Bar Association (TBA) brings together volunteer attorneys, paralegals, law students, and TBA staff to help hundreds of low-income Lucas County residents file for divorce. The Pro Se Divorce Clinic, established in 1994 and the first of its kind in the state For the best experience, log in to access members-only content and resources. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. Quick Links. MyTBA ... Toledo Bar Association 311 N. Superior Street Toledo, OH 43604-1421 Main: 419.242.9363 Fax: 419.242.3614 [email protected] Hours: 8:30 am – 4:30 pm. If you are looking to hire an attorney but have limited resources, please select "Modest Means" panel on the next page and be sure to complete the financial questions on the final screen before submitting your request. To be screened for Pro Bono Services, you must contact Legal Aid at 888-534-1432. Contact Information.For the best experience, log in to access members-only content and resources. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. Quick … If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. Summary. In Toledo Bar Assn. v. Neller, 102 Ohio St.3d 1234, 2004-Ohio-2895, 809 N.E.2d 1152, ¶ 1, the Supreme Court of Ohio held that unsworn written statements signed under penalty of perjury could not be substituted for affidavits in Ohio. Delegate legal research to CoCounsel, your new AI legal assistant.For the best experience, log in to access members-only content and resources. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. Quick Links. MyTBA ...The Toledo Bar Association started in 1878 with fifty-three members, listed in a hand written ledger—names recognized today as among Toledo’s civic and industrial leaders. Unfortunately, many of those old records have been lost, but enough is known to make it clear that, through the years, members of the Association have worked to improve ...Warren. Trumbull County Bar Association. (330) 675-2415. All Counties. Pro Seniors Legal Hotline & Referral Service. (For persons over the age of 60) (800) 488-6070 or (513) 345-4160. Find a lawyer referral service in your area.The 2024 Toledo Bar Association Caty Armstrong Memorial Law Day Essay Contest topic has been announced! The TBA invites area students, grades 7-12, to write an essay on the topic: Voices of Democracy.Find a lawyer for your legal needs by filling out a questionnaire and selecting a panel of attorneys. This service is provided by the Toledo Bar Association, a professional …Bellevue Municipal Court. Prosecutor David Claus: 419-483-5880. Sandusky County Bar Association. Need a lawyer? The Sandusky County Bar Association has a group of legal professionals that would be willing to help you out. We can help in different areas of law. If you need criminal defense, family law, probate matters, general civil and business ...The College of Law will help students find volunteer opportunities with public service agencies and other non-profit organizations engaged in pro bono work. We have a strong partnership with The Toledo Bar Association Pro Bono Legal Services Program, Legal Aid of Western Ohio (LAWO), and Advocates for Basic Legal Equality (ABLE). The Toledo Bar Association Pro Bono Legal Services Program provides volunteer attorneys for low income individuals in a variety of legal issues in Lucas County. If you cannot afford an attorney and are low income, call 419-724-0460 or 888-534-1432 to see if you qualify for free legal help. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363.TBA Notary Run is now: Ohio Notary Services, LLC . The Trusted Choice in Ne Ohio . The Toledo Bar Association (TBA), Ohio State Bar Association, and a counter of large bar associations formed Ohio Spanish Services, LLC to meets the new demand and opportunities for Olivio solicitors following from the Notary Modernisation Act of 2019.If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363.The Toledo Bar Association is a professional organization for lawyers, law students, and paralegals in Toledo, Ohio. It offers networking, education, and pro bono services to its … The Toledo Bar Association Pro Bono Legal Services Program provides volunteer attorneys for low income individuals in a variety of legal issues in Lucas County. If you cannot afford an attorney and are low income, call 419-724-0460 or 888-534-1432 to see if you qualify for free legal help. Toledo Bar Association | 656 followers on LinkedIn. Founded in 1878, is a professional organization for attorneys, judges, paralegals and law students. | The Toledo Bar Association is a professional organization for attorneys, paralegals, and law students in Lucas County. The mission of the Toledo Bar Association is to provide outstanding …If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363.She also served as President of the Toledo Bar Association (2015-2016), as a member of the Council of Delegates of the Ohio State Bar Association, and two prior terms as a Trustee of the Ohio State Bar Foundation. Michelle was born in Springfield, Ohio. She obtained a Bachelor of Science Degree (cum laude) from Miami University in 1990.Find a local lawyer for your legal issue or case through the Toledo Bar Association Lawyer Referral Service. All lawyers are qualified and in good standing with the Ohio … Toledo Bar Association 311 N. Superior Street Toledo, OH 43604-1421 Main: 419.242.9363 Fax: 419.242.3614 [email protected] Hours: 8:30 am – 4:30 pm If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. For the best experience, log in to access members-only content and resources. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. Quick Links. MyTBA ...TOLEDO, OH – Shumaker Partner Cheri A. Budzynski has been Appointed to the Toledo Bar Association (TBA) Board of Directors as a representative for diversity, equality, and inclusion, where she will join fellow board members to preserve and promote Toledo as a unique place to practice law in a culture of camaraderie, collegiality, … For the best experience, log in to access members-only content and resources. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. Quick Links. MyTBA ... The Toledo Bar Association Pro Bono Legal Services Program provides volunteer attorneys for low income individuals in a variety of legal issues in Lucas County. If you cannot afford an attorney and are low income, call 419-724-0460 or 888-534-1432 to see if you qualify for free legal help. Join us Monday, June 27, 2022 to support the TBA Pro Bono Program. Spend an afternoon with us (rain or shine) on the golf course at the Toledo Country Club for the Annual TBA Golf Outing. Enjoy good company along with a 50/50 Raffle, Mulligan Sale and a Betting Hole all benefitting the Toledo Bar Association Pro Bono Legal Services Program ...If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363.The Toledo Bar Association (TBA) is seeking a full-time director for its Pro Bono Legal Services Program. Position Overview. The Pro Bono Program matches volunteer attorneys with eligible low ...February 8, 2024. Julie Hoffman has been practicing law for over 20 years and is a regular participant in the Toledo Bar Association’s Pro Bono Program, providing legal advice and service without charge. Assisting those in Lucas and Wood Counties with family law matters, Hoffman enjoys helping to complete forms and draft documents while ...First-year law students at Toledo Law are paired in small groups with attorneys from the Toledo Bar Association. Students meet monthly with their attorney mentor. The formal mentor program, run by the Office of Professional Development, is for one year, but many students stay in contact with their mentor for the rest of their law …The Toledo Bar Association started in 1878 with fifty-three members, listed in a hand written ledger—names recognized today as among Toledo’s civic and industrial leaders. Unfortunately, many of those old records have been lost, but enough is known to make it clear that, through the years, members of the Association have worked to improve ...For the best experience, log in to access members-only content and resources. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. Quick Links. MyTBA ...The Toledo Bar Association (TBA) announces the results of the poll taken of its members, September 7 through 21, for the upcoming judicial elections on Tuesday, November 8, 2022. Biographies of each judicial candidate and a link to an online poll were sent to members of the Toledo Bar Association asking them to rate the candidates as "highly …To become a member of this association you need to fill out a membership application and pay an annual due which ranges from $50 to $305 depending on how many years the applicant has been licensed to practice law. Contact the Toledo Bar Association. 311 N. Superior St. Toledo, OH 43604-1421 Phone: (419) 242.9363 Fax: ( 419) 242.3614 tba ...The Toledo Bar Association (TBA) is pleased to announce the formation of Ohio Notary Services, LLC, (ONS) a unique partnership between the TBA and five...Activity. Created 15 years ago. Join this group for updates on The Toledo Junior Bar Association's Annual Gridiron Show--and for all the juicy gossip. Come on, …For the best experience, log in to access members-only content and resources. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. Quick …Toledo Bar Association. · January 22 at 7:14 AM ·. The 2024 Toledo Bar Association Caty Armstrong Memorial Law Day Essay Contest topic has been … For the best experience, log in to access members-only content and resources. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. Quick Links. MyTBA ...
The Toledo Bar Association (TBA) Pro Bono Legal Services program was selected as one of three winners of the 2020 Veterans Health Administration (VHA) Community Partnership Challenge. The contest is an opportunity to highlight nonmonetary, community partnerships between VHA and nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) that …. Prime opinion survey
Join us Monday, June 27, 2022 to support the TBA Pro Bono Program. Spend an afternoon with us (rain or shine) on the golf course at the Toledo Country Club for the Annual TBA Golf Outing. Enjoy good company along with a 50/50 Raffle, Mulligan Sale and a Betting Hole all benefitting the Toledo Bar Association Pro Bono Legal Services Program ... If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. The 2022 Toledo Bar Association Caty Armstrong Memorial Law Day Essay Contest topic has been announced! The TBA invites area students, grades 7-12, to... Toledo Bar Association · January 18, 2022 · ...Activity. Created 15 years ago. Join this group for updates on The Toledo Junior Bar Association's Annual Gridiron Show--and for all the juicy gossip. Come on, …The Toledo Bar Association presents three awards annually for service to the association and the community. TBA members can nominate a colleague for an award at any time by sending an email to TBA Executive Director Brad Lagusch ( [email protected] ). Please specify the name of the attorney and the relevant award.The Supreme Court of Ohio adopted the Ohio Rules of Professional Conduct, effective February 1, 2007 and as amended April 1, 2015. These rules supersede and replace the Ohio Code of Professional Responsibility to govern the conduct of Ohio lawyers occurring on or after February 1, 2007. Consult the Rules of Professional Conduct here.TOLEDO, OH – Shumaker Partner Cheri A. Budzynski has been Appointed to the Toledo Bar Association (TBA) Board of Directors as a representative for diversity, equality, and inclusion, where she will join fellow board members to preserve and promote Toledo as a unique place to practice law in a culture of camaraderie, collegiality, …The Toledo Bar Association is a professional organization for lawyers, law students, and paralegals in Toledo, Ohio. It offers networking, education, and pro bono services to its … An innovative divorce clinic at the Toledo Bar Association (TBA) brings together volunteer attorneys, paralegals, law students, and TBA staff to help hundreds of low-income Lucas County residents file for divorce. The Pro Se Divorce Clinic, established in 1994 and the first of its kind in the state For the best experience, log in to access members-only content and resources. If you are a Toledo Bar member, and you have never logged on to the website, click “Forgot Username or Password” to create your log-in credentials. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact us at [email protected] or 419-242-9363. Quick Links. MyTBA ...Cara is active in the local community and serves as on the Toledo Bar Association Board of Directors and as the Chair of the Toledo Bar Association’s Diversity Committee. As Chair of the Diversity Committee since March 2017, Cara oversees committee activities, such as CLEs and monthly meetings, and leads the administration of the Toledo Bar …The Toledo Bar Association (TBA) Pro Bono Legal Services program was selected as one of three winners of the 2020 Veterans Health Administration (VHA) Community Partnership Challenge. The contest is an opportunity to highlight nonmonetary, community partnerships between VHA and nongovernmental organizations (NGOs) that ….